Well im not sure if it would affect spawn rates, since all players can only have a certain amount of mobs around them i don’t think it would affect spawn rates of other people on the servers but maybe i’m dumb. I know some people hate uding grinders and stuff but it your choice, if you don’t use it you don’t use it no one is forcing you to. Also AFK might be only Overnight time when there is only like 2 or 3 people on the server , We will aware everyone cause if someone use it when there is 8 people on there might be lags issues. Not 100% sure it is gonna be built, i still need to do a few test on private servers to see how much lags it produce. if it produce too much lags it will not be built.
I would like from other people to try it too, Take the world download in the desc of the vid and copy paste it on a private server. Run that server with a few redstone clock on so we have many results and it will be easier to decide : if we build it or not. If i’m the only 1 testing it with my shitty laptop we might have some problems
SHYWOLF does have a point, is it outside spawn? Should do some math before breaking ground, can’t exactly move it “6 blocks to the right” after the fact. This could negate the whole “off button” selling point, we gotta make sure. I’m looking.
HAUX and TWO: I got the math on spawn rates I think; anything outside 240 isn’t eligible for spawning and at 32-128 mobs begin to despawn, but realistically, who’s going to notice past 32? That’s double the view distance for most people.
Mob caps are relative to # of exposed chunks available to mobs so it appears that any place already visited is in the math, regardless of buildup or multiple players. Check my arithmetic -
I don’t know if Froe ever figured out why the iron farms were affecting spawn rates. According to the rules/math of the game, it should have had no affect, but it did… unless I’m remembering things incorrectly. I don’t think I am, though.
Froe (for when you read this), what do you remember of this?
Fro limited the mob spawn rate just slightly tmk. (Well I know he did but I don’t know how much of the edit he kept) The only real way to get currency is selling diamonds so I don’t see the issue really. Diamonds have always been the standard and a lot of people use iron in their builds so its nice to have an efficient farm.
I don't know if Froe ever figured out why the iron farms were affecting spawn rates. According to the rules/math of the game, it should have had no affect, but it did... unless I'm remembering things incorrectly. I don't think I am, though.
So if I read you correctly, you're worried not enough things will be trying to kill you? :)
I like this handy chart but if it doesn't reflect actual experience we gotta read some more.
Indeed, iron is a poor currency when it has so many other uses. Can’t trade the armor off your back. I’m well stocked in most things but always starving for iron, not to trade, just to use. Diamonds have a place too, just not nearly as in demand. Other then a diamond sword I don’t think I’ve used one for anything else yet. A diamond is a whole crazy amount of birch saplings, for example, but the market will adjust. Iron may still have a place, just inflated by the Fed. (that’s you TWO!) Buy Lapis futures!
If we build the farm we can come up with rules and regulations of use. For example:
We should have on site iron storage in form of either iron ingots or blocks. Anyone can take iron but if you take a lot you need to commit some of your game time to afking at the farm to generate more iron for the community. If the farm cause major lag afk when there is little to no one on.
(we need to test if this cause lag for everyone or just those who always have lag.) I ran this on my computer with no noticeable lag.
Also about the economy: We have two options:
Stay with our current system of trust based economy (ie chests that people deposit the “currency” in) and state the official server currency (ie diamonds or gold) or other barter system
or
use a plugin (ie mineconomy, craftconomy, shops, better shops, etc)
iirc the video gives up the basic resources for the tutorial. We’ll need to think of other stuff we’ll need to make it look good and not like a big ugly build (ie cover the two towers like in the showcase, build in-house storage and auto storage of the ingots, cover the redstone, etc)
Maybe have everyone in skype while building and have someone record.
I really dont like this. Building an iron farm next to spawn is an invitation to cheating. It could not be against the rules but its still cheating. Players can play mc however they want but they shouldn’t be influenced. I tolerate farms that are in remote places, its something to keep people away other than the person who built it (Its probably in his base) but stamping farms infront of peoples faces is wrong. Everyone, even people that didnt have anything to do with the building process, will feel like they are playing mc wrong when they mine the iron and see everyone else grabbing it by the blocks from some chest at spawn. And then theres the mobs, zombies will get stuck trying to get the villagers, making them useless (maybe even creating lag with the pathfinding) and server will lose its last bit of challenge. Iron is a precious metal, people need it for all sorts of things, and being able to farm it ruins the spirit of achievement and adventure, people will stop mining the abandoned mineshafts, iron will become like coal. I don’t understand whats so fun with owning so many things ingame when you did little to get them and when all you do is just keep it in a chest in a treasure room. It is also very possible that new players in the server will farm the iron as first thing they do in the server and then set out in search of a place to settle with a full iron armor on em, Wheres the sense of adventure in all this? everyone will be getting everything they need from spawn before even touching a pickaxe!
sorry for the unorganized and late post, I just dragged myself to do it and just typed whatever came to mind. This is my opinion(/bitching) on the matter.
First, Thanks for your opinion sniper. I’ve broken your original post into what I felt were more important and responded with my opinions. If anyone else has any concern please reply.
Building an iron farm next to spawn is an invitation to cheating.
Is it really consider cheating? Many people play minecraft differently. I understand that the use of x-ray mod is cheating but should we chuck the use of public farms as cheating? By using a farm you’re not abusing glitches or flaws in the coding, you are using the games mechanics to your advantage.
Players can play mc however they want but they shouldn't be influenced.
Are we really influencing them by having a close public use iron farm? If they really don’t like using farms, they don’t have to use them. We’re not putting up a sign saying if you want to play on our server you need to use this iron farm. If they want to use it or not its there choice.
Everyone, even people that didnt have anything to do with the building process, will feel like they are playing mc wrong when they mine the iron and see everyone else grabbing it by the blocks from some chest at spawn.
I can see that for new minecraft players, but from what I see on our servers is they have knowledge of minecraft or have played before.
And then theres the mobs, zombies will get stuck trying to get the villagers, making them useless (maybe even creating lag with the pathfinding) and server will lose its last bit of challenge.
I’m not knowledgeable on this subject. But wouldn’t this only affect a certain radius around the farm? Also would it cause lag?
Iron is a precious metal, people need it for all sorts of things, and being able to farm it ruins the spirit of achievement and adventure, people will stop mining the abandoned mineshafts, iron will become like coal.
Iron, according to minecraft resources is a common resource.
It is the most common mineral that can be used to make tools and armor.
Wherever i dig I find vast amounts of coal and iron ore. In the months of being on the server I have never mined a abandoned mineshaft. My underground farm area is practically surrounded by iron ore.
I don't understand whats so fun with owning so many things in game when you did little to get them and when all you do is just keep it in a chest in a treasure room. It is also very possible that new players in the server will farm the iron as first thing they do in the server and then set out in search of a place to settle with a full iron armor on em, Wheres the sense of adventure in all this? everyone will be getting everything they need from spawn before even touching a pickaxe!
Well for one I like using iron blocks to build with (but I don’t use that much so I don’t run out). Also We can always make rules that new players must have bases before they are allowed accessed to the iron or the farm. Just like we require them to have bases before they make shops in spawn.
Also from what i see is we have friendly players who help out newer players by giving them armor or basic tools.
What you are saying is influencing people that actually want to build a farm. Just because one party does not want a certain thing to happen, that does not give them right to govern the other. If you want to mine, mine. If you want to build an iron farm, build.
I don’t see exactly why you don’t tolerate this, and these are few of my guesses to your reasoning. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. 1. It’s ugly.
We are going to beautify it after its completion as shywolf has mentioned right before your post. 2. It’s laggy.
We can turn the farm off. Scipio has suggested that we run it when there’s no one online. 3. It’s cheating.
No it’s not. It’s an exploitation of game mechanic. It’s a valid method of obtaining iron. No hacks used.
Not quite. Zombies will only be affected around the iron farm, which isn’t close enough to spawn to affect the entire spawn area. I am also not sure what you mean by “challenge” as zombies have never been a challenge. People that are well-armed, which is pretty much everyone except the new waves of players that are joining, have absolutely no trouble with zombies. They are just an annoyance. I personally go kill zombie pigmen if I actually want to feel “challenged” by mobs. Not only that, but mining diamond still remains as a “challenge”, PvPing whether it be with consent of participants or not still remains as a “challenge”, building large projects such as the canal and other mega-structures still remains as a “challenge”.
Iron is definitely NOT a precious metal. People may not even consider diamonds as precious gems at this point. I don’t know about you, but I don’t really feel a sense of accomplishment when I mine out a pocket of iron ores. It’s something more along the lines of “just another bits of iron in my already large stockpile”. People will continue to explore abandoned mineshafts, because it still contains loots such as enchanted books, lapis, and other useful loots. One may even find a diamond in those minecart chests. Iron may not be abundant as coal, but it’s the next thing on the list.
This statement just downright contradicts your statement right before saying how “people need it for all sorts of things”. If the former statement is correct, then we wouldn’t be storing it in chests since we are using it so frequently.
You say that as if that is a bad thing. It gives players who want a quick start exactly want they are looking for. Plus, getting full set of iron kit isn’t even that hard. It takes about 30 minutes at most. It just takes the tedious phase out of people that are new to the server. On top of all that, they have a freedom to choose. They aren’t required or forced by anyone to take iron from the farm. If they want a vanilla start by punching a nearby tree, by all means, go do it.
They will NOT be getting everything they need. They still need to build a house, which means they are going to have to either dig out a house in the mountains, build a house out of wood, take over an underwater temple like me and Israleel, or anything they want to do. They still need to dig up diamonds if they want to upgrade their tools because iron is not the end game resource.
Sorry if I sound too critical, I am just trying to defend people’s position in this server and my intentions are innocuous.
SnIpEr you bring up arguments that I have already contemplated - issues with lag, zombie crowding (so other hostile mobs do not spawn), greed (what if someone steals the iron while another person is afk?), mass AFK even when the server is filled with players, so many problems can arise out of this.
However, I do not think saying no to this because you believe it is cheating is the right thing to do. Because simply put, it is not cheating. It doesn’t use any outside/3rd party software to run, it doesn’t require hacks, it simply takes advantage of the way the game spawns iron golems. If a player felt that it were cheaty then all they need to do is simply not use it. The argument that people may feel the need to use it is a very poor one - haux has more iron and resources than likely anyone involved with the iron farm, and after 10 weeks of afking at it, he still will have more iron. Yet he, like you, does not use any farms. I personally do not use iron farms either, yet I never feel as if I am falling behind, influenced to use it, or whatever.
You are confusing this project as something the whole server must take part in and use.
There are already iron farms on the server. This would just be a group one closer to spawn.
Minecraft is a sandbox game. It allows for infinite number of ways to play it, and infinite things to do in the game. The server was created as a vanilla server with some exceptions to allow for easier SMP action (IE, /home), so what can be done in vanilla is generally legal on the server. I am not going to tell players what they can and cannot build based off the premise that one player may think of it as cheating. There is only room for debate here because they want to build it at spawn - at which point, I will become more choosy for what people do and do not build. Spawn is an area for community projects/shops/etc. If they build this outside of spawn chunks, and ensure that somehow there is a fair way for everyone to get iron, then I do not see a reason against this.
Sidenote:
I still have concerns - lag and the zombie problem being the largest - but another side one would be who decides when someone afks there? What if I help build the farm and I just afk at it for 2 weeks, not allowing other people to get iron from it. That’s something I want to hear about from those who are building it.
Well that is something we’ll all need to discus and plan for.
We can have rules in place for the use of the iron farm. IMO we can have on-site iron storage that is free to take but they need to repay by taking the time to AFK when they have time. (depends on how much iron we get in one hour)
We could also set up time limits for AFKing. For example you can only AFK for a maximum of 24 hours per week. or something like that and you must sign a book when you start AFKing (start time,etc)
Knowing that few of you will read past the first paragraph, the summary is: I’m in if it’s built far from existing bases and comes with a “no-base” zone of 200 block radius. If you care to know why, read on.
My concern with the Iron Titan was lag. I’m in favor of the Iron Towers, given that it’s built far enough from spawn to minimize lag effects. Maybe Haxxer’s grave is far enough,but Mr Lagman (Ferrari) could never go home again. The other location proposed is fairly close to spawn, even though not in “spawn chunks”, the lag-generation could be activated.
I’ve seen some comments that this thing has an off switch, and it’s possible I missed something, but I’ve watched the entirety of both DanielKotes’ showcase and his tutorial and I’ve only seen a reset feature. The primary source of lag from iron farms is villagers and zombie pathfinding, so this thing is only “off”(with regard to lag) when the chunks are unloaded, which is actually variable based on client settings. Zombies that spawn 128 blocks away from the nearest player will instantly despawn, but the villagers will stay loaded depending on our settings.
The other night Kevin and I tried to lag the server with some redstone clocks and my large number of nether portals, but I experienced only the slightest lag. The worst lag is experienced when players explore new territory/chunks, and though I whine about it when I’m suffering while another player explores, I can’t imagine that we would ban exploration.
My other concern is that this project is slightly complicated, more so than a canal or a prismarine farm. Someone needs to assume the role of project manager to ensure the work gets done and done right.
My view is that complaints about how the game “should be” played have no value in this conversation. As long as someone doesn’t take my stuff, make me lose my gear, use unfair mods/hacks, or engage in behavior that makes the game un-enjoyable (e.g. afking at lag machines), then I have no right open my mouth.
Regarding greedy players: i think we have an honorable group. How many of you have visited my dirt castle in the recent weeks when i wasn’t around? And no one took a damn thing. If we make it clear to everyone what entails honest and correct usage of the farm, then 99% will obey. There will always be “technos”, but they get sorted out quickly.
Since I am consider myself to be “neutral” on this issue, I’ll also discuss why I don’t think this might be the best idea.
Seems like the lag is the biggest concern surrounding the iron farm. Proponents of this issue support the idea by saying that the lag can be brought under control by turning it off, but will it truly bring the lag down to zero?
As Scott said, I tested the lag while Scott, Adrian, and I were on the Skype call. The reason why it wasn’t so noticeable was because there simply weren’t that many people on at that time. Yesterday when I was on, there was about 15 people on at once; no one knows how the server will react if we have some massive device such as the redstone farm while there are that many people on the server. When I experimented with the redstone clock while there were around 7 people on, the TPS dropped down to 12, causing noticeable difficulties while digging, throwing ender pearls, and fighting mobs.
Adding to what Monsta has said, the rules and the regulations for this farm is becoming way too complicated for its benefits. We have concerns about lag which limits the time of the day we can use the farm for, since people are on a lot nowadays. Not to mention once school starts, I assume people simply won’t have time to afk during certain times of the day to get iron. Now there are talks of limiting how long people can use the farm for. Are you kidding? It’s probably going to take longer to set up the rules than actually build the farm itself.
As mentioned earlier in shywolf and my defense against Sniper’s concerns, iron is abundant. If it really is abundant, do we really need an iron farm? Why not just go and get some from a cave, strip mine, or even iron ores that pop up on the surface some times? People probably have stacks upon stacks of iron in their chest somewhere. Iron has become expendable to a point where Ferrari’s Colosseum is adorned with sets of iron armor for each archway.
Since this is an issue without a clear compromise, I suggest we take a vote from the players in the server (no one outside of the server gets a vote) and decide upon this issue. If we get more than 75% of votes on either supporting the build or maintaining neutrality, let us build the god damned iron farm.
