After spending 20 minutes cleaning up the mess of someone so dense they think switching teams to block the enemies tower, our tower, is a legitimate strategy I’ve come to the realization that you cannot win against a griefer. Try as you might you’ll end up spending all of your time, otherwise spent actually enjoying the gameplay, constantly unblocking your tower because of 1 guy. Eventually It gets the point that you give up (forfeiting the game because nobody else can unblock the tower), starting a vk (they rarely ever pass for a legitimate reason), switching teams, or leaving the game entirely. No matter what this is entirely counterproductive to the babel game mode and is cancerous in the fullest sense.
What I propose is that trusted players or maybe even only selected trusted players be given the command to disable building. Obviously I don’t expect the administration to jump at the proposal especially with the recent breaches of trust but it’s a workable idea. Some alternate solutions would be trusted players only have the ability to take away someones building rights for a short amount of time, 5 or 10 minutes, and/or the trusted /tb only taking effect in the protected tower area. I don’t see the abuse of this command getting out of hand but if it was abused remember that trusted is always a privilege and never a right.
I think it’s /tb (togglebuild) but it might be different on aloha.
I do not think trusted players should be given access to commands that regulate servers. They are trusted for a reason; they are trustworthy, but they may not be mature enough or know when/how to use the command. They are given enough perks, IMO, by being able to break protected blocks and have votekick protection, but I think that any more than the already-determined perks are not acceptable.
Basically, I do not think that trusted members shouldn’t have administrative tools at their hands.
How about a Trusted+ rank which adds this command. It filters out all of the mischievous trusted users and it will have a stricter(?) evaluation before judging if someone is worthy of it.
(Well you have this command when you are a guard so yeah…not really worth the trouble to make a rank like this)
xoke is no longer trusted fyi. This is also why I said “selected trusted players” and brought up the idea of a nerfed /tb that only effects the tower area. With school starting up and admins/gaurds working and living a life outside of aos this place is going to get very understaffed come fall. It’s not like I’m calling for trusted players to be given the ability to ban everybody and screw the servers to dust. This simply means we wont have to sit by the tower like guard dogs for 2 hours or until a admin gets on and undo the mess one person makes. A person can already leave and come back to evade a /tb.
Trusted+, seriously? What is this, a Minecraft rank server?
Mischievous trusted users shouldn’t be trusted in the first place.
Trusted does not mean 'good at making decisions".
If anything, put the guideline in the trusted application instructions (something like “… you must be good at judging a situation and making a good decision to use /tb…”) but doesn’t that seem like it would be in a guard app instead?
Like I said before, ‘trusted’ doesn’t mean ‘good at moderating’. It isn’t a trusted player’s job to do so. If they want to moderate, apply for guard.
Selected trusted users would be complicated. Like I said above, I don’t think it’s their job to moderate servers, regardless of the command or how it will be used.
It would be nice to see more guards ;), so hopefully there can be more active staff during school and stuff.
If this were to be made, don’t do it coordinate specific. If a person blazes a block on a specific z coordinate, the nerfed /tb’d person cannot build on that z-line coordinate.
Edit: kuunikal, every gaming community has ranks
Also please clear your stance in this, I don’t know if you want this to be implemented or if this shouldn’t be implemented [same goes for me but I already like the idea of this because an extra rank is much easier and more manageable than selecting specific players in the trusted list to be given this extra command (mostly resulting in confusion within the staff community)]
Every community has ranks but I was jokingly comparing it to a Minecraft server and how they have really dumb rank names (Donator, Donator+, Donator++, etc. crappy rank names).
My opinion is that the rank/perk shouldn’t be implemented because they are unnecessary and will further complicate things, make more room for abuse, and not be the right job for a trusted user.
Also, Trusted+ users SHOULDN’T be considered staff, because how would they really be staff if they only have 1 command they can use (another reason the rank is barely necessary).
Apply for guard if you want to help regulate the servers.
This has been brought up a few times if I recall correctly, and the general consensus was against giving togglebuild to trusted. The line between a guard and trusted should be a clear one and giving trusted or even certain ones /tb would make them bear a responsibility that can be abused or one that can’t be delivered.
There’s a reason why we have a long application process for guards and that’s to ensure a staff member abuses their powers, and even then some get a God complex and abuse their powers or use it for self-interest. To me, an abusive staff member would do more harm than a rampant griefer, including tarnishing our name and potentially losing players who put their trust upon us to not abuse. You can always come into the IRC and report the griefer (yes, sometimes nobody responds) or record and report on the forums.
Aye but has an extremely nerfed /tb been discussed? At the very max I’m talking about general /tb but as trusted aren’t gaurds or admins It is indeed unrealistic. What about a nerfed /tb that trusted members would have to apply for that only disables someones building for say 5 minutes and even then only disables their ability to build in the protected tower area. Call it trusted+ or something. This way gaurds and up wouldn’t have to take time out of their day to help a trusted player protect their own tower, which often costs the match for their team, and we can all continue playing without a great inconvenience for multiple people over 1 person.
what you’re asking just seems like a massive stretch to me. the trusted position was made to give noble members of the community benefits to themselves because we “trust” you not to fuck shit up. commands such as /tb affect the gameplay of others which should be limited to staff only and not extended to trusted players
staff members have the ability to interfere with the gameplay of others. that’s the reason why there exists a rigorous application process. people are trusted because we trust them to be civil and not do stupid shit. people aren’t trusted because we believe in their ability to prevent others from doing stupid shit and judge situations where action is necessary. that’s the difference between trusted and staff and i think that delineation has to remain pretty clear
I would like to state that this isn’t a power grab. This is an idea to utilize the potential of players that aren’t interested in having the responsibility of banning hackers but do know what griefers are and could theoretically stop them from griefing. Having to babysit someone that thinks blocking towers is fun is about as annoying as having to rely on others to do the same when you’re responsible enough to know not to abuse something as trivial as /tb. I’m not talking about preventing you or anybody else not trolling from building. I’m talking about preventing griefers from griefing without having to inconvenience a chain of people to accomplish that goal. If it helps you sleep at night don’t call it trusted+ go ahead and call it gaurd- because, as i already said, trusted players would have to apply for it.
You all seem to forget that griefers already impede someones gameplay and they don’t need a staff position to do it. Preventing such a thing isn’t the worst idea in the world.
i don’t think /tb is necessarily trivial. it still allows you to interfere with the gameplay of others which as i said i think should be exclusive to staff only
what is the difference between this and applying for guard? it seems like a rather odd idea imo to add an additional subclass where members of this class only have access to a nerfed version of a single command. and what if you’re just a regular player and there are no staff or trusted+ on? you’ll run into the same problem as having no staff online as well. i don’t see this significantly benefiting anything
It is trivial compared to banning someone for no reason. You keep saying “gameplay of others” instead of calling griefing what it actually is. It’s not some wonderful thing like building a tower or enjoying the clutch, It’s impeding the game play of everybody and trolling. I’m not talking about stopping any normal player from building. I’m talking about griefers. Some of us that have been playing for years but aren’t staff know what griefing is.
The difference between this and applying for guard is 1. not seeing the admin board 2. not having any other access to commands. and 3. this is not applying for gaurd. I’m not talking about regular players not having staff on. I’m talking about regular players not needing staff on because of one guy blocking a tower. It’s a bonus to the game. It’s a bonus to admins. It’s a bonus to responsible trusted players that don’t want to spend all of their time cleaning up their tower. Was the entire class of trusted even really all that needed? Why was this class even created? So we could help be the antigriefers or because someone didn’t want to be vked? So we’re trusted but not really and we have superbuilder why? Do we really need superbuilder when an admin/guard can always just come on and clean up the mess for us?
Trusted is there for players who need protection from votekicks that staff has agreed are trustworthy enough not to hack. The de-griefing system is just an added benefit because we trust those people to use it correctly. /TB is a tool to moderate who should be allowed to build. It’s there to stop griefers, but there’s nothing preventing it from being abused beyond staff choosing who is allowed to use it. Simply enough: we don’t trust ‘trusted users’ enough to allow them to use /tb. If we did, they would probably be on staff.
On top of that, being trusted is not the same as being staff. We can keep tabs on the 20 guards we have and what they are up to. I do not want to even imagine making sure our 128 trusted users don’t abuse /tb.
I don’t think you understand, /tb can be abused. This is why we can’t give it trusted. What happens when someone complains that they repeatedly gets tb’ed? What will we say? “Oh, that was our trusted member doing that, not our staff.” Are trusted member going to be responsible and explain why they did that? What will happen when a trusted member abuses this? We have too many trusted to even keep track of what they do.
The entire point of having trusted and being “trusted” is because we trust you won’t do something stupid or cheat to get votekicked. The point was never for trusted members to be some sort of antigriefing vigilante group. It’s to make players who get trolled by votekicks or get kicked too often be immune to that. Being a superbuilder does not directly affect anybody’s game play, as opposed to using tb which can directly stop someone from building.
I’m also sure a lot of trusted members don’t want the responsibility of tb’ing griefers and just want to play without getting votekicked. If you really want to help stop griefers, apply for a guard position. Simple as that. The three points you made are pretty trivial for not applying for guard. There’s no reason to blur the lines between trusted and guard.
Giving /tb to trusted (which is one of staff’s commands, as far as I know at least) is a really bad idea.
It could be abused a lot. Also, trusted SHOULDN’T be that overpowered.
Instead of allowing for more than one hundred players to moderate others, even if in a seemingly trivial way, qualified players like you, Israelleelll, can simply apply to become server guards.
Granted, the wait time involved in joining staff may be longer than would Danke adding a modified /tb system, but staff entry is meticulously reviewed for a reason, and expanding the trusted role would have long-term effects, some that we may not foresee now.
Further, there could be a slippery slope. If trusted players are allowed one restricted moderating power, not only does the line between trusted/staff blur, but so does the definition of a trusted player. What is to stop the lobbying for additional powers, even small and benevolent ones like the power to stop griefing?
No, it is better to keep the trusted position a protection-system on an individual basis, and leave the moderating to staff.
