Well, that’s some pretty harsh damage dropoff, 4 blocks away and 50 dmg, 5+ blocks away and a grenade can pretty much be ignored. A full nade is also too much though, 6 block instakill. Something in between seems to be the best option.
If I’m not mistaken, spade nade was still in effect at this time. 8) Coincidence?
Edit: For clarification, the majority of the votes are atm for some sort of change with grenades in arena, so the question should be not whether to change grenades, but what to change about them.
very interesting idea… would make each round dynamic - AND add some missing AoS elements to the game mode!
might be worth a try 
perhaps require somewhere around 9 nades within a very small radius (1-3 blocks) to destroy a block? that would promote teamwork and prevent rounds from becoming overly dynamic
is it too harsh though? i think not because arena’s play area is significantly smaller than the play areas in most other game modes… it’s so much easier to hit people with nades in arena! and survivability is way more important in arena because there’s no respawn. too much nade damage takes away nearly all chances of a player’s survival when he happens to be near one of the many nades that explodes on arena. at least reduced nade damage gives him a chance to jump away in pain if he’s actively being aware of his surroundings, but it can still spell death for him if his enemy is strategic enough by, for example, continuing the attack with a mix of another nade or two and/or gunfire…
arguing that increased nade damage is more strategic doesn’t make any sense to me. it’s EASIER to get kills the more damage a nade does, especially the smaller the play area is. what’s strategic about simply tossing an increased-damage nade into a restricted play area and letting it automatically get instant kills? reduced nade damage means you have to be more strategic - do more work - to get kills. right?
yes, you are right, spade nade existed during that time. most players didn’t even know what that was.
i don’t understand your clarification, the more i read it the more confused i get 
Im not against the idea but maybe make some area of the map indestructible, else a team can just block of the access of certain ways in certain maps I.E. tunnels in militia. As long as it soesnt bother the way you play a map i guess its fine.
but my idea is to give to nades the damage for structures (ofc for arena-servers). it will be elegant decision to fight with campers at sneaky points (for example - home at green spawn at cs italy, or green base tunnel exit at cs-militia, or vent at cs-assault).very interesting idea… would make each round dynamic - AND add some missing AoS elements to the game mode!
might be worth a try
Im not against the idea but maybe make some area of the map indestructible, else a team can just block of the access of certain ways in certain maps I.E. tunnels in militia. As long as it doesn’t bother the way you play a map i guess its fine.
I also like that idea (since unfortunately you can’t change the # of grenades 
) - you would have to have some moderation in that, (because some people would destroy the floor until you can fall through and hit the world end - aka die. - i.e. cs_italy has many spots that if you lag, you fall through the floor, so nades destroying floors would be bad) - but it WOULD add something really interesting to arena. I’m not opposed to changing it, but I feel like for a change that big there needs to be either edits to the maps (thicker floors) or some invisible parts (like twoday said). - but I’d actually think it’d be cool if like only have the blocks in the vents in cs-militia could be destroyed, then ifs like you could fall if you aren’t careful.
Something that could fix the floor problem is have floors be invisible and nades only damage walls and boxes and such. - but it would be fun to be able to make a “dugout” with a nade in random spots .
Also, I don’t know from a coding/server-manager stand point if adding “invisible” blocks and have “destructible” blocks at the same time is possible. @MuffinTastic?
P.S.
Edit: For clarification, the majority of the votes are atm for some sort of change with grenades in arena, so the question should be not whether to change grenades, but what to change about them.i don’t understand your clarification, the more i read it the more confused i get
I’m pretty sure Eddy was trying to say that in the polls, if you look at only 1 standing, “No change” wins, but if you take all the “change” options into account, changing grenades wins (with the majority) - if that makes any sense ;D
While it’s easier for one to use nades on arena, because of its size, it’s also easier to use smg and shotgun as well. People play arena for the mid to close quarters experience-deadlier weapons, more intense action. Stripping away grenade damage in order to make it more balanced relative to something like babel is not what arena is about.
I feel like the time it takes for a nade to go off to be enough of a chance to get away, especially combined with the distinctive sound that’s made by a grenade being unpinned and the sharp clank of a grenade bouncing. And while I understand the strategy you mention, it doesn’t work in practice with the grenades as they are now in arena. Players understand that if they keep 5 blocks out from a grenade, they’re fine. Previously, players would duck for cover when a grenade came too close. Now they step to the side, soak up 10-30 damage, and carry on.
It’s not that simple to just toss a grenade into an enclosed area and get kills. If you don’t want the enemy to easily dodge the grenade, you’ll have to cook it for a bit, making you vulnerable. You have to be able to deduce whether or not your enemy will attack while you’re cooking the grenade, or remain where they currently are. A smart/attentive enemy will be able to hear you unpinning the grenade, realize you’re cooking it, and take the initiative and charge in while your gun is holstered.
As for less damage=more work=better strats, it isn’t as simple as that. In humans vs zombies mode, the shotgun has ridiculously low damage, doing ~10 damage on a full meatshot. While this does mean that it requires more work and better strats to effectively employ, nobody is actually going to use it when there are better alternatives. The same principle applies to arena grenades. If you require a great deal of precision with a timed projectile weapon (<4 blocks!) in order to employ it most effectively, nobody will bother to do so when they can simply rush in with an smg. Why waste time and effort into cooking a grenade when that leaves you very vulnerable and is unlikely to do that much damage?
is it too harsh though? i think not because arena's play area is significantly smaller than the play areas in most other game modes.. it's so much easier to hit people with nades in arena! and survivability is way more important in arena because there's no respawn. too much nade damage takes away nearly all chances of a player's survival when he happens to be near one of the many nades that explodes on arena. at least reduced nade damage gives him a chance to jump away in pain if he's actively being aware of his surroundings, but it can still spell death for him if his enemy is strategic enough by, for example, continuing the attack with a mix of another nade or two and/or gunfire...arguing that increased nade damage is more strategic doesn’t make any sense to me. it’s EASIER to get kills the more damage a nade does, especially the smaller the play area is. what’s strategic about simply tossing an increased-damage nade into a restricted play area and letting it automatically get instant kills? reduced nade damage means you have to be more strategic - do more work - to get kills. right?
While it’s easier for one to use nades on arena, because of its size, it’s also easier to use smg and shotgun as well. People play arena for the mid to close quarters experience-deadlier weapons, more intense action. Stripping away grenade damage in order to make it more balanced relative to something like babel is not what arena is about.
I feel like the time it takes for a nade to go off to be enough of a chance to get away, especially combined with the distinctive sound that’s made by a grenade being unpinned and the sharp clank of a grenade bouncing. And while I understand the strategy you mention, it doesn’t work in practice with the grenades as they are now in arena. Players understand that if they keep 5 blocks out from a grenade, they’re fine. Previously, players would duck for cover when a grenade came too close. Now they step to the side, soak up 10-30 damage, and carry on.
It’s not that simple to just toss a grenade into an enclosed area and get kills. If you don’t want the enemy to easily dodge the grenade, you’ll have to cook it for a bit, making you vulnerable. You have to be able to deduce whether or not your enemy will attack while you’re cooking the grenade, or remain where they currently are. A smart/attentive enemy will be able to hear you unpinning the grenade, realize you’re cooking it, and take the initiative and charge in while your gun is holstered.
As for less damage=more work=better strats, it isn’t as simple as that. In humans vs zombies mode, the shotgun has ridiculously low damage, doing ~10 damage on a full meatshot. While this does mean that it requires more work and better strats to effectively employ, nobody is actually going to use it when there are better alternatives. The same principle applies to arena grenades. If you require a great deal of precision with a timed projectile weapon (<4 blocks!) in order to employ it most effectively, nobody will bother to do so when they can simply rush in with an smg. Why waste time and effort into cooking a grenade when that leaves you very vulnerable and is unlikely to do that much damage?
Those were my thoughts (put into understandable words) when I started this thread/poll
This. The removal of spade-nade and returning to 25% nade damage tipped the balance to a point where smgs dominate medium and close range gun battles. Reinstating spade-nade and/or raising the damage (with a message to notify non-forum users) would encourage greater weapon diversity in arena’s smaller maps. More people would use the rifle, which might also increase shotgun usage to easily take out awkward close-quarters rifle users.
Right now, the options are to rush with the smg and spam ineffectual grenades, sit at chokepoints with a rifle (or more frequently an smg), or camp. My suggestions would change the meta of the first and last of these strats, encouraging more novel strategies and teamwork.
Less people are for the status quo than there are for some sort of change.
nothing to do with balancing relative to babel. it’s about preventing nades from being overpowered on tiny, single life maps.
be more strategic by cooking it in a safe place… be more skillful by timing your throw so that it explodes as it hits the enemy
good because nades are meant to be a secondary weapon. the current reduced damage nades aren’t useless though. you’re just not trying hard enough to strategize with them. you say nobody will bother to use the reduced damage nades when they can simply rush in with an smg… you ask why waste time and effort cooking reduced damage nades? well, as you said earlier yourself, the reduced damage nades cause players to “step to the side, soak up 10-30 damage…” so now i’m asking how is that worse for you? reducing their health and forcing them to change their position before you rush with smg gives you the upper hand… use it to your advantage to kill them!
Another point I want to make - grenades used to be the only defense against multiple enemies traveling as one. Now grenades don’t even slow them down (you can try to argue against it, but in practice it doesn’t work. - and being “more skillful by timing your throw so that it explodes as it hits the enemy” also doesn’t work in practice. It is REALLY hard to land a perfect nade, and if you miss by 1 or 2 blocks, your nade was wasted, because if enemies travel as a group, I don’t care if they all have 20 hp, they still destroy you with 2+ more guns)
Sorry izzy, but I have to disagree with you about the whole “be more strategic and skillful” point :-. You’ve said so yourself, you only get one life in arena, and so if you mess up a little bit on your nade (when trying to practice, or after practice) then you are dead, because the nade won’t work, and now the enemy has surrounded you and/or rushed you.
Having 1 Grenade that does a lot of damage is a good replacement. It’s more like a risk-reward thing, which forces players to not waste the nade in a wrong timing. But I prefer not having the grenades in arena because at this state, it’s a spamfest even though they were nerfed.
at this moment the poll shows 12 votes for keeping the current reduced nade damage, and 6 votes for increasing it.
even though those 6 votes are only half the majority, it would be better if we could reach a more satisfying middle ground for all without disrupting balance, if possible! i propose upping the damage modifier by 13% (as suggested by Muffin and Eddy), which would essentially increase the distance of the current damage most noticeably by approximately 1 to 2 blocks. this would basically be slightly more than 1/2 of the default damage radius.
the yellow line in this graph that topo made demonstrates that:
(orange is current, red is default)
x-axis = blocks distance, y-axis = damage
although i’m already against increasing it by more than 5% based on my past personal testing and experiences, some arguments are propelling enough that i think we should at least try the somewhat-higher-than-that suggestion.
just pointing out that with the current reduced damage, a single nade that explodes within 6 blocks of their locations would be enough to kill all of them if they all have 20 hp. with the proposed change in effect, they would die if the nade exploded within 8 blocks of their locations.
agree to disagree? i don’t know why you think you have to be so dependent on nades though
Sorry izzy, but I have to disagree with you about the whole "be more strategic and skillful" point :-\. You've said so yourself, you only get one life in arena, and so if you mess up a little bit on your nade (when trying to practice, or after practice) then you are dead, because the nade won't work, and now the enemy has surrounded you and/or rushed you.agree to disagree? i don’t know why you think you have to be so dependent on nades though
I’m dependent on (aka really like) nades because 1 person (even with smg) simply can’t take on a large number of people (which happens a lot in arena) - (aka, 1 person versus >3 enemies, the >3 enemies almost always win - even if a few died)
Also nades are pretty neat 8)
It is REALLY hard to land a perfect nade, and if you miss by 1 or 2 blocks, your nade was wasted, because if enemies travel as a group, I don't care if they all have 20 hp, they still destroy you with 2+ more guns)just pointing out that with the current reduced damage, a single nade that explodes within 6 blocks of their locations would be enough to kill all of them if they all have 20 hp. with the proposed change in effect, they would die if the nade exploded within 8 blocks of their locations.
Sorry for the confusion, The 20 hp health thing was a scenario where you used nades on some 100hp enemies, thus taking them down to about 20hp (on average) - the 20hp enemies generally still win against 1 player just because of # of guns. Although…
even though those 6 votes are only half the majority, it would be better if we could reach a more satisfying middle ground for all without disrupting balance, if possible! i propose upping the damage modifier by 13% (as suggested by Muffin and Eddy), which would essentially increase the distance of the current damage most noticeably by approximately 1 to 2 blocks. this would basically be slightly more than 1/2 of the default damage radius.the yellow line in this graph that topo made demonstrates that:
(orange is current, red is default)This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 746x489.x-axis = blocks distance, y-axis = damage
although i’m already against increasing it by more than 5% based on my past personal testing and experiences, some arguments are propelling enough that i think we should at least try the somewhat-higher-than-that suggestion.
… I don’t want to necessarily make it where one guy can always take down lots of enemies, that’s just an example of why I like nades (also for people camping hard-to-reach spots)
-but I agree that since it is so close in votes (because while 7 are for increasing nade damage at this point and 11 are for no changes, the majority - of this really small pool of people - is 12 want some sort of change) - I agree that we should meet somewhere in the middle and see how that works out.
why are you solo in the first place? that’s what you get for letting your team die
just because 5 of those 12 “want some sort of change,” it can’t be concluded that they all support the notion of the 7 who are for increased damage.
of those 5:
- 1 wants nades removed altogether - i say that’s more supportive of the 11 who are for the current reduced damage.
- 2 want more nades with the current reduced damage - this can almost be considered a neutral wash because although it means they’re in favor of more total combined damage from all nades, it also means they like something about the current reduced damage of each nade. where’s the option for more nades with less-than-current reduced damage anyway?
- 2 want "other " - this can mean anything. perhaps they have no preference at all? or perhaps they actually want further decreased damage, but considering that you didn’t provide that option anywhere in the whole poll, i say your poll is rigged to favor your preference of increased damage.
anyway, forum feedback doesn’t necessarily reflect what’s best for the gameplay because the sampling is so small. of course it’s worth considering and that’s what we’re doing, but it’s not the end-all consideration.
I would like from the people who voted to keep the nade as they are say their opinions. Thus far we’ve only had a bunch of people that wants nade damage increased and Izzy courageously defending their point. I want to see why the 10 other people (considering topo and izzy defended the current nade) think they are balanced as they are. Its for no hate, maybe us freaks in an arena that seems to have unbalanced nades will understand and we’ll finally think they are balanced.
Speak up please
It’s probably people, aside from a few, who don’t play arena much, if at all…
I like this idea, sadly this will probably not happen anytime soon. I do agree with you about the spamfest but I wouldn’t remove grenades.
Grenades are still useless, what happened to the supposed “buff” that was being implemented soon?
And like it’s been stated before, you cannot change the number of nades.
I’m not familiar with programming, but I’m pretty sure there’s a way to make a plugin that removes grenades from players when they spawn. Is that possible?
Probably. If people really wanted to get rid of gernades they could probably remove damage from them kinda like how in human V’s zombies zombies can’t use guns but I’m not a programmer and never really looked at the code
Not sure if it’s possible to remove gernades from a person tho
Probably something that could be added to clients being made (i.e. betterspades)