not being able to break blocks around enemy players

[israelleelll]

The title pretty much explains itself in terms of what Ill be discussing. I guess this was implemented literally as I was playing earlier today because it happened after I sound tracked a few people, tunneled down to them, and then killed them. Soon after I started getting a chat message saying "you cannot break blocks around enemy players" or something along those lines. I got that message while trying to unblock a fellow red player that was griefed in to blocks thanks to some troll. I'll call that flaw 1 that I've seen. How was I to know there was an enemy on the other side of the wall if not for that message? I'll call that flaw 2 as it is essentially chat esp. The third flaw and by far the most annoying I just discovered. I was content to stay in the spec team and record people but blue's tower was blocked by a wall on top, thanks to another troll, so I joined blue team to unblock their tower. When i got up top to unblock it i got the message "you cannot breaks blocks around enemy players" so I couldn't unblock the tower for them. Obviously not being able to break map blocks is a fair solution to trusted players being "op" because normal players couldn't break the very same blocks but this is just ridiculous now. One of the only two perks to being a trusted player is unblocking the tower, the other is being free of votekicks. I cannot unblock the work of a griefer/troll if I can't break blocks around a enemy player when they, the enemy, flock to the top of the tower to rain grenades, smg, and tower divers. Subsequently blue lost the map. Not only is this an inconvenience for everybody, it goes against the basic idea for this game if you can't tunnel under, to the side, or in to enemy players. How are we supposed to tower dive if we can't break enemy blocks with them on their own tower? How are we supposed to build tunnel networks if we cannot tunnel under the enemy or their own tower that they are always around? How are we supposed to play the game at all like its meant to? I can only assume this is to nerf classic players from tunneling down on to a player that's digging under them but is that not part of the game as well? How is the enemy to tunnel forward with you standing above them? Don't os users also have the option to use classic? Cannot os users also use their own God given ears to trace the location of a enemy player around them? This new addition ruins the gameplay for everybody playing babel and not using it as a surface only tdm game mode. Please remove it.

[shywolf91]

we're you near your tower? iirc this only affects the protected area where normal players cannot dig.

[israelleelll]

Yes. I was bellow the front pillar of our tower when I tried to unblock my fellow team mate. I'm not a "normal" player. I'm trusted to not grief and unblock the tower from griefing. I only dig through tower blocks to clear a walkway for the "normal" player. Was limiting the breakage of map blocks not enough? We already can't tunnel down to kill someone bellow our tower. This didn't need to be implemented. This is pure over kill and a unnecessary annoyance for trusted players.

[atrain1298]

Yes. I was bellow the front pillar of our tower when I tried to unblock my fellow team mate. I'm not a "normal" player. I'm trusted to not grief and unblock the tower from griefing. I only dig through tower blocks to clear a walkway for the "normal" player. Was limiting the breakage of map blocks not enough? We already can't tunnel down to kill someone bellow our tower. This didn't need to be implemented. This is pure over kill and a unnecessary annoyance for trusted players.

I was told that this was implemented so we couldn't dig down and destroy enemy tunnels. 

[shywolf91]

Yes. I was bellow the front pillar of our tower when I tried to unblock my fellow team mate. I'm not a "normal" player. I'm trusted to not grief and unblock the tower from griefing. I only dig through tower blocks to clear a walkway for the "normal" player. Was limiting the breakage of map blocks not enough? We already can't tunnel down to kill someone bellow our tower. This didn't need to be implemented. This is pure over kill and a unnecessary annoyance for trusted players.

I was told that this was implemented so we couldn't dig down and destroy enemy tunnels. 

Its to prevent trusted players from having a advantage over non-trusted players (other than the trusted ability of de-griefing your tower)

Israel I sent you a pm.

[israelleelll]

Yes. I was bellow the front pillar of our tower when I tried to unblock my fellow team mate. I'm not a "normal" player. I'm trusted to not grief and unblock the tower from griefing. I only dig through tower blocks to clear a walkway for the "normal" player. Was limiting the breakage of map blocks not enough? We already can't tunnel down to kill someone bellow our tower. This didn't need to be implemented. This is pure over kill and a unnecessary annoyance for trusted players.

I was told that this was implemented so we couldn't dig down and destroy enemy tunnels. 

Its to prevent trusted players from having a advantage over non-trusted players (other than the trusted ability of de-griefing your tower)

Israel I sent you a pm.

The distance that's set is annoyingly large. I was a considerable distance from the edge of the platform and still couldn't ungrief the tower. If any troll was remotely smart they'd just start blocking the top of our tower from now on and we'll all be helpless, unless of course the enemy isn't up top yet. It's the close call matches that i'm worried about.

On atrains point, taking out enemy attack tunnels is still fairly easy. All you have to do is find a tunnel that links up with your problems tunnel, find a hole they unwittingly made, or dig another hole in front of your tower to their tunnel. I just changed up my strategy and I don't worry about it.

If there was a public memo I wouldn't be making all these assumptions about what was actually implemented in the game mode. As far as I knew all of our building rights were nerfed everywhere.

[Kuunikal]

I would like to add that I got this too when I was under my tower fixing up some holes that an enemy dug under it. While under it, a teammate must have blocked up the whole that I used to get in, and I could not dig out for a while because there were enemies near the tower. Eventually, I was able to escape, but it was a pain having to wait down there. (I could have blown myself up, but I don't like dying in the game voluntarily. )

[Danke]

Thanks for the input, 16 is definitely too high. I thought in 16 blocks in xyz space wouldn't amount to much, but I guess 8 blocks would probably be on the high end of what it should be. The whole point of that feature is to not give trusted advantage over tower divers (same for map blocks and tunnelers.)

Might be worth it to note these fixes weren't just based on conceptual issues we felt needed fixing, these were scenarios non-trusted players and logged out staff were actually running into.

[israelleelll]

Thanks for the input, 16 is definitely too high. I thought in 16 blocks in xyz space wouldn't amount to much, but I guess 8 blocks would probably be on the high end of what it should be. The whole point of that feature is to not give trusted advantage over tower divers (same for map blocks and tunnelers.)

Might be worth it to note these fixes weren't just based on conceptual issues we felt needed fixing, these were scenarios non-trusted players and logged out staff were actually running into.

Thank you. I doubt we'll have too much if any trouble with that distance.

[izzy]

This is pure over kill and a unnecessary annoyance for trusted players.

ideally, trusted players wouldn't have any advantage.. not being known or trusted shouldn't put someone at a disadvantage. the trusted system is intended to be a way for players to deal with troubling situations (such as griefers) on their own without assistance from admins. it's also a reward in the sense that those who behave and have proven themselves trustworthy are deserving of non-gameplay safeguards and conveniences such as immunity to votekick. the recent "nerf" for trusted players on babel is nothing more than an effort towards a more fair playing field between them and players who aren't trusted. as Danke said, the distance will be tweaked - somewhere around 3 to 6 blocks sounds like a sweet spot to me.